passing glaus --- UPDATE: both players pass physicals
Update [2008-1-14 14:24:32 by lboros]: both rolen and glaus have passed their physicals. [/update]
i'd like briefly to note the passing of marty hendin, a member of the cards' promotional team for 30-plus years. his parents were my father's patients, and marty showed his appreciation through various acts of generosity to our baseball-loving family --- every year we'd get signed player photos and surplus swag from giveaway promotions. one night when i was 10 or 11 years old, he invited my dad, my brothers, and i up to the press box during a game. we got to peek over buck and shannon's shoulders while they spun the play-by-play; we shook hands with stan musial, still hale and looking as if he could hit .325; we crowded into the organ booth with ernie hays, who engaged in lively banter with us between innings while simultaneously tickling the keys for the crowd (and not missing a note); and we received copies of that day's briefs for the media, about half a dozen legal-sized pages of stat-filled notes. in that pre-computerized era, when fans almost never had access to any stat beyond basic avg / hr / rbi, these sheets of paper were packed with revelations and delights --- items on the order of "lou brock is batting .323 in his home games this year" and "lynn mcglothen hasn't yielded a home run to a right-handed hitter all season" and "al hrabosky has retired the first batter he faced in 29 of 30 appearances." those stapled sheets are still in a drawer in my old bedroom, i'm pretty sure.
derrick goold has nice remembrances of marty at his post today at Bird Land. condolences to the hendin family.
i don't have a whole lot to add to my snap evaluation of the rolen-glaus trade, nor to the more in-depth analysis that houston cardinal presented yesterday. i did get a little input as to why the jays would trade for an older player with a longer contract. here's how it was explained to me. glaus's player option left toronto in a no-win position. if he came back healthy in 2008 and played well, the jays would lose him --- glaus would decline the option and get a better deal on the free agent market. but if his injuries persisted and he played poorly, then the jays would be stuck with him --- he'd exercise the option rather than hazard the free-agent market. so their best-case scenario was one good year of troy glaus. in rolen, they have a much better best-case scenario --- 3 good years if he comes back reasonably healthy --- and if he stinks they're not that much worse off --- they're stuck with him for one season longer than they would've been stuck with glaus. this is why the cards insisted that glaus exercise his option as a part of the deal --- they didn't want to be in the same position the jays were in.
in short, the jays gave up a little youth and payroll flexibility in exchange for greater roster control; the cards acquired a little youth and payroll flexibility (and above all clubhouse peace) without sacrificing roster control. i don't see the downside for the cardinals. that doesn't mean the trade is sure to work out --- the players' health will determine that --- but the decision-making passes muster w/ me.
i sampled the reaction from within the jays blogosphere to see how this is playing north of the border. we begin with john brittain, who writes regularly for the Hardball Times and wasn't happy on hearing the news:
Bottom line, it'll likely improve the defense but defense wasn't the problem in 2007. If J.P. Ricciardi wants to deal with the Cards, couldn't he at least try to land Pujols?
A best case scenario has a healthy Rolen making up for Eckstein's lack of defensive range and adding his higher OBP and speed to a lineup that struggled last season. A worst case scenario has me thinking about a John McDonald and Marco Scutaro platoon and wondering how Curtis Thigpen would transition to third base. . . . .
This move would seem to fall in line with the Eckstein addition, in that Rolen is a gritty player. He's more in the line of guys that get dirty and play hard visibly. I asked this question after the Jays new shortstop is signed and I'll ask it again. Is J.P. actually listening to those guys who phone into Wilner's radio show saying that the Jays need more heart?
Unfortunately when we try to look at the defensive measurements other than fielding percentage for last season, there's a problem. The two different companies who sit in the stands and mark where every hit goes don't agree with each other about how well he fielded last year. One says Glaus was very good and the other says he was terrible. But we can go back a year and see that Glaus is still up there with the best in the league. Anyway, this is a minor upgrade --- but it doesn't count as extra enticing just because the Jays already have one of the best defenses in the league.
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Defense
by StLHugo on Jan 14, 2008 9:09 AM EST 0 recs
Glaus may be good, but ...
I think only Lowell, maybe Wright, could be described as slightly worse than Rolen defensively; everybody else is a full step behind. He's the best since Robinson; I'll miss him.
And good point, Hugo, about looking at the whole left side of the infield. Izturis/Glaus is probably better offensively than Rolen/Eckstein, and only a tick behind defensively.
by Snacks LaPoint on
Jan 14, 2008 2:00 PM EST
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Not a substantive comment but...
by liam on Jan 14, 2008 9:45 AM EST 0 recs
Yep
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 10:10 AM EST
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Apparently, money coming to STL in trade
Anyway, saw this on another message board and thought it was worth adding to the discussion here.
by pitchingandefense on Jan 14, 2008 10:31 AM EST 0 recs
Says we are on the hook for $4 M
by Hardcore Legend on
Jan 14, 2008 10:37 AM EST
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Full quote from article:
Glaus has reportedly already exercised his player option for 2009, meaning that the Cardinals are due to pay him $24.5 million over two years. Toronto has offered St. Louis a deferred payment of about $1.8 million to make up the difference."
I provided that quote to clear things up. From that article the Cards are getting 1.8M from Toronto to help pay the player option. What I don't get is what the 4M bonus in 2010 is all about since it isn't listed on Cots.
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 11:21 AM EST
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signing bonus?
by dmb60614 on
Jan 14, 2008 12:06 PM EST
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Agree
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 1:18 PM EST
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I had never heard of the 4M bonus either
by pitchingandefense on
Jan 14, 2008 12:48 PM EST
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Deferred
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 3:35 PM EST
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Whoa
by Calhoun on
Jan 14, 2008 11:13 AM EST
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OT - Ian Snell
He already has been pretty disgusted with the organization (openly feuding with the pitching coach last year).
I know I beat this drum over and over again but maybe we can pry Snell away from the Buccos.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 14, 2008 10:33 AM EST 0 recs
Keep beating that drum
by aet15 on
Jan 14, 2008 1:42 PM EST
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Snell
I think that the Buccos would probably ask for Duncan and "something else," and Duncan isn't going anywhere (right or wrong, he's here to stay).
by redbirdnation8206 on
Jan 14, 2008 3:27 PM EST
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Chris Duncan
Don't be so sure about that. I don't see the Cards starting an all left handed outfield for an extended period. Who goes first, Roy Hobbs or Chris Duncan? It might come down to what Hobbs gets in arbitration. Although I never would have believed it 1 year ago, I think Hobbs has more upside in the NL than Chris. Young Mr. Duncan has AL written all over him. They may wait for things to sort themselves out in the outfield but, if I were a betting man, my money would be on C. Duncan not wearing the birds on the bat in '09.
by jjray on
Jan 14, 2008 5:17 PM EST
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splits and platoons
by dmb60614 on
Jan 14, 2008 6:01 PM EST
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On Marty Hendin
"This morning my mom called that our cousin Marty had lost his battle after a lengthy illness.
He was our only somewhat famous relative and as a Cardinal fan I enjoyed being able to say I was related to Marty Hendin. We would get occasional tickets to a game but never asked for playoff or World Series tickets. Marty had tremendous integrity and understood that he worked for the St. Louis Cardinals and wouldn't take advantage or take for granted his position.
It's a great story that a guy who went to UMSL, not the fanciest or best looking guy wins out because he's bright, works incredbly hard, makes friends with everyone and follows through on his word. Hall of Famers, Presidents and celebrities interacted with the Cardinals and St. Louis through Marty's handshake.
I believe that the St. Louis love affair with the Cardinals is built on both the great storied success on the field and the decency and maturity of men like Stan Musial, Lou Brock and Marty Hendin. Marty had the job that every fan in St. Louis wanted to have
Anyone who every went to hat day, or got a rally towel or enjoyed the festivities around a World Series game should have some toasted ravioli for Marty.
May his memory be for a blessing."
by Secret Weapon on Jan 14, 2008 11:00 AM EST 0 recs
thanks for adding that
by lboros on
Jan 14, 2008 11:50 AM EST
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I had the privilege of...
Indeed, may his memory be for a blessing.
by airhad on
Jan 14, 2008 12:39 PM EST
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What a horrible time for a typo!
so sorry.
by airhad on
Jan 14, 2008 12:40 PM EST
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R.I.P. Marty Hendin
by tbell61 on
Jan 14, 2008 1:18 PM EST
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no-trade clause
thanks!
by giveml on Jan 14, 2008 11:03 AM EST 0 recs
he would have to waive it again to be traded
by dmb60614 on
Jan 14, 2008 11:14 AM EST
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trading for prospects
by dmb60614 on
Jan 14, 2008 11:16 AM EST
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I thought that too
by pitchingandefense on
Jan 14, 2008 12:51 PM EST
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and then?
who then plays third base in '08 ?
Not criticizing your thinking, just curious about that temporary hole in the line-up?
by the Tewk on
Jan 14, 2008 4:06 PM EST
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3b
- acquire a 3b prospect like andy laroche who is ready to play now.
- go with a combination of the speez and ryan, although it seems larussa would go with speez and miles.
- sign or trade for someone. pedro feliz is still floating around as a free agent and joe crede is still on the trading block. this is the least desirable of the options, imo.
i am not in a big hurry to trade glaus, i am just curious if the mozeliak would consider moving him in furtherance of the rebuilding efforts. hopefully he pans out and the cardinals merely re-load instead of rebuild.
by dmb60614 on
Jan 14, 2008 4:19 PM EST
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but if Glaus
by ridgesee on
Jan 14, 2008 6:27 PM EST
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Arni Cruz...........
by Red Blazer on
Jan 14, 2008 6:56 PM EST
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yeah,
by ridgesee on
Jan 14, 2008 8:50 PM EST
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Yes I'm excited to see how he progresses this
by Red Blazer on
Jan 14, 2008 9:12 PM EST
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Marty Hendin
by Deaner on Jan 14, 2008 11:04 AM EST 0 recs
Only because you quote him.....
by flynn on Jan 14, 2008 11:27 AM EST 0 recs
will carroll weighs in
"The Cardinals would get Troy Glaus back on grass, and that might be the most significant factor in this trade. Glaus' long history of foot and back problems will be helped by a move away from artificial turf . . . it's the foot injury that limited Glaus that has to be the foremost concern. If so, the Cards did well. According to sources, Glaus had a nerve problem that was painful but not serious. He had surgery to decompress the nerve causing the pain due to plantar fasciitis. While oversimplifying the procedure, the nerve was moved to keep the inflammation from causing the constant, debilitating pain that had limited Glaus. Remember, the Cards have good experience with managing plantar fasciitis--they've been able to keep Albert Pujols on the field despite the condition, and Pujols has continued to produce due to some advanced techniques and plain old hard work. The combination of the Cardinals' experience with the injury, the move to grass, and the absence of shoulder symptoms over the past few years makes Glaus a very reasonable risk over the term of his deal."
by lboros on Jan 14, 2008 12:57 PM EST 0 recs
and dan szymbroski weighs in
"Both third basemen are injury concerns. Rolen's a bit better when completely healthy but also has the lower chance of being completely healthy. I think the risk/reward scenarios actually work out pretty well for both teams - the Blue Jays are against very tough competition and have some heavy groundballers, so they want the more fielding oriented guy with the biggest payoff, since they're not going to slip into the playoffs with 88 wins anytime soon and the Cardinals, against rather weak competition, would rather have the safer bet."
by lboros on Jan 14, 2008 12:59 PM EST 0 recs
I'm just pleasantly surprised...
An added benefit is that the lefthanded laden outfield is not as much of a concern with Glaus, who mashes lefties. We can still deal Duncan if the move is right, but we won't be negotiating a deal from as weak of a position with a viable cleanup hitter against lefties already in place.
by Merry CRasmus on
Jan 14, 2008 2:22 PM EST
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BTF
vr, Xei
by Xeifrank on
Jan 14, 2008 3:56 PM EST
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Uni Number
Haven't seen this yet, but will the Cards give Glaus his usual #25? I doubt it...
Also, funny to think that Rolen now has to wear those horrible Blue Jays throwbacks every other Friday. Yikes.
by kyle on Jan 14, 2008 2:32 PM EST 0 recs
Uni number
I doubt McGwire would care. He doesn't talk about the past, you know.
by 26thMan on
Jan 14, 2008 4:10 PM EST
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XM Radio reports both have passed their phyiscals
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 14, 2008 2:46 PM EST 0 recs
Plantar Faciitis
by BigdJC on Jan 14, 2008 2:54 PM EST 0 recs
So now I'm back to worrying about
by sdrone on Jan 14, 2008 2:57 PM EST 0 recs
I can cut your worries in half...
by Red Blazer on
Jan 14, 2008 3:41 PM EST
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Same feeling
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 3:46 PM EST
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Sorry, hugo, but I'm not that patriotic...
by tbell61 on
Jan 14, 2008 4:28 PM EST
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I'm not that patroitic either
by ridgesee on
Jan 14, 2008 6:36 PM EST
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Patriotism isn't all
Beyond that I do want us to win what could possibly be the last baseball Olympics.
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 6:48 PM EST
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Valuable is correct
I would love for him to come up midseason. If he works out, I would love for the Cardinals to do something aggressive with him like the Indians did with Sizemore. He had the largest contract ever for a second year player when they bought out his arby years plus more. However, the contract is a steal.
by RedbirdRay on
Jan 14, 2008 6:56 PM EST
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I'd love to see that...
Barton
Ankiel
Duncan
Ludwick
In my view there's room for one more, which I would expect to be Schumaker. I don't see them carrying more than that since Spiezio can play some corner outfield in spots as the utility guy. I think Barton really has to be given every shot to win the CF job in spring training. He would be the best CF option that the Cards have. If he doesn't go bonkers then my second option would be to have Ludwick start out there (he came up as a CF and played well in short stints out there last year), but then I'm not sure who leads off.
In my mind, Colby has to have a spring similar to the one that Albert put up his rookie season to even have a shot at making the club right out of the gate. I'm not saying it won't happen, but if he struggles I'd much rather see him get another half a season at AA or AAA and then get called up around the time Ankiel did last year or when rosters expand. Gives the club more cost controlled years of him.
by fourstick on
Jan 14, 2008 4:12 PM EST
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It'd be great if Barton
by sdrone on
Jan 14, 2008 4:33 PM EST
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Schumaker
Who the 5th OF is all depends on spring training IMHO. Colby is notorious for starting slow when he makes a jump in level, thus, I think he starts slow and gets sent to Memphis only to be recalled later in the year. Barton can play center. So can Ludwick. Are they comfortable with Ankiel's defense in center? If so, I think Schu is out. Not enough power, doesn't walk enough (although a small sample size). Wouldn't shock me to see LaRussa use the last roster spot get Josh Phelps onto the 25 man. It would mean more reliance upon a Rule V player (Barton) than is traditional but, hey, what the heck. Don't think the Cards are going places in 2008 so why not experiment.
by jjray on
Jan 14, 2008 5:31 PM EST
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I agree with Ridgesee
Also, I believe Tony is very fond of Schumaker. I would be a little surprised to see him left at the mercy of the waiver wire.
by the red baron on
Jan 14, 2008 8:19 PM EST
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I sure hope so,
by giveml on
Jan 14, 2008 10:14 PM EST
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They're Giving us Money!?!?!?
by tdub on Jan 14, 2008 3:23 PM EST 0 recs
Per Goold
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 3:34 PM EST
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Anyone have a good lineup simulator?
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 14, 2008 3:43 PM EST 0 recs
Bird Land just did it
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2008/01/docs-are-in-lineup-checkup/
Hint: still worse then 07 and 06 some how.
by StLHugo on
Jan 14, 2008 3:46 PM EST
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He used 2007 numbers though...
Just a thought. I don't know what Goold's using to do this, but if anyone has the time that would be interesting to see.
by fourstick on
Jan 14, 2008 4:03 PM EST
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interesting
Fourstick- he used david pinto's lineup generator.
by SleepyCA on
Jan 14, 2008 4:34 PM EST
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Using David Pinto's
I find it hard to believe that Izturis will last as a starter (or even on the 25-man) if he bats as poorly as ZiPS expects while fielding as badly as some expect.
Swap in an unlikely, yet spunky infield of Brendan Ryan and Jarrett Hoffpauir, and the best aveRS/G goes up to 4.878
by liam on
Jan 14, 2008 4:43 PM EST
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Glaus' Option?
If Glaus plays well in 2008, he leaves to test the open market. If he plays lousily in 2008, he picks up his option to play for us in 2009.
Or am I reading it wrong and he picked up his option?
Either way I am happy about this, but I hope he picked up his option.
by Ghost on Jan 14, 2008 6:52 PM EST 0 recs
trade is finalized
I love this quote from Glaus's agent, r3egarding his plantar fasciitis: "The thing of it is, if he got it fixed, it will be fixed."
Ya think? ;)
by SleepyCA on
Jan 14, 2008 6:58 PM EST
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Nice Doublespeak
by Merry CRasmus on
Jan 14, 2008 7:32 PM EST
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deal done...
by oquendorocks on Jan 14, 2008 6:59 PM EST 0 recs

